Hi Steven:

Thanks much for your clarification and for the additional information about Droomla. I think it would be a big help and much less confusing if you highlighted where customers can find all of this information about how your subscriptions and software licensing works. I didn't think to find this information in the site's Terms of Service link in the footer ... and I wouldn't normally expect to find this type of product/service definition there.

I guess the sales interface turned me off because it looked/acted a lot like those extensions sites where the product is locked to a domain/encrypted/time-limited/etc. ... and it didn't give me any reason to think otherwise. Perhaps you can add some text explicitly stating that you can use Droomla on as many domains as you like; the annual subscription fee is for support, not using the software; the software doesn't expire; etcetera. I'm used to seeing these types of notices on other commercial Joomla extension providers' sites. When I didn't see this for Droomla, it set off alarm bells (especially since the Web site URL is a mandatory field in the sales form, the fee is presented as automatically renewing, the cost is listed as being for "Product - Droomla," etc.).

So I guess all this confusion is due to a customer interface issue in terms of how the product is presented and sold. I offer my feedback as a potential customer, FWIW: Dig your product descriptions out from your TOS and put them in a more obvious location. Had I seen this, most of my questions would have been answered.

I certainly agree that Droomla is a cool project that could come in very handy for meeting needs that Joomla can't deliver, as well as for giving clients the best of both worlds. From your comments, do you see Droomla being leveraged more to implement pre-packaged Drupal solutions (modules) inside of Joomla? Or do you see this more being used to develop Drupal-like CCK functionality inside of Joomla? And/or do you think it will become a popular way to add features to Drupal? It would be great to see basic case studies of how this has been used.

Also, would Drupal's multi-site functionality be applicable/deployable in a Droomla-powered site? (I only have a tertiary knowledge of Drupal, but if Droomla enables this functionality, I'll be taking a closer look.) This would be a killer application of this tool.

Hey gang - I figured I would pipe up in here:

1a: Everything is noted in our packages for our licensing as well as available on our TOS page. http://www.corephp.com/corephp...vice.html. All of our products are a yearly subscription for download / support / etc. Selling software does not go against any of the licensing terms at all. This is a big mis-conception in the GPL world. If I wanted to, I could easily sell distributions of Joomla! without violating the licensing terms of the GPL.

1b: We need your domain because we will only provide support for the domain you purchased for. We don't offer support if you buy it once and need assistance on 1,000 sites. Kind of defeats the point of staying in business.

1c: Droomla installation will not expire. Again please refer to the TOS. We state NO WHERE on the site that a component of ours will stop working after a year.

1d: " is there anything preventing anyone from getting Droomla, then offering downloads of it elsewhere for free?" - The answer is no. But in hind sight we appreciate our user base as it allows us to continue the development of the project. Otherwise we have no funding for enhancements / bug fixes / and supporting of the product. We appreciate that others leave the development to us - it is what we do best.

1e: There is nothing "disingenuous" about our approach in selling any software. Please reference and familiarize yourself with the GNU/GPL license: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gp...tyToPublic

3: Over the past 10 years we find that our customers get stuck in a rut that they don't want to be in. They sacrifice options. For instance there will be products in Drupal that meet the customers needs and products available in Joomla! that meet the customers needs. When the customers chooses a CMS they then scrap the product that was available for the other CMS and put it into phase 2 which usually never happens for another 9-15 months or until they have a budget to build the available extension. Same goes for WordPress for Joomla! - a lot of people where sacrificing there sites because Joomla! really doesn't have a good blogging platform and they would go with WordPress. Having two instances sites going on / two logins / frustrating their users to no end to remember what password and username went with each system. Not to mention the value of skinning the two system went up in time and money for the customer with two systems running. With WordPress for Joomla! this solves the problem of having two systems and lowers the cost of maintenance and development for our users. Same goes with Droomla!

What we have done is provided solutions to problems. Droomla is a great tool for many things: utilizing the Drupal modules that fit your bill, using it as a CCK, etc. Really our users come up with the most amazing things to do with our products so it is really left up to your imagination on how you want to use it.

I hope the above helps you and others.

Kindest regards,

--Steven Pignataro
CEO 'corePHP', LLC

Thanks for your feedback, Mike! Here are some more thoughts:

-- For Point No. 1: This product is not being presented on the Droomla site like most pieces of open-source software. To me, it much more resembles a commercial product for sale, with a built-in annual license (and even recurring annual billing set up by default). Go check out their purchase process on their site to see what I mean.

Throughout the Droomla purchase process, I was looking for (but didn't see) any information about how the software was licensed, or specific information about exactly what I was buying. Their purchase process requires you to enter a URL for "Web site usage" in order to proceed. (It also says "support for one year for one domain.")

Because of the way that Droomla was presented, it set off alarm bells for me. Is this GPL software? Would my Droomla installation expire after one year? Could I install it on multiple domains? Does the software "phone home" to authorize usage? The Droomla Web site didn't say. Based on my experience with some other Joomla extensions (that are encrypted or obsfucated), this is vital information I need to know before making a purchase.

So I guess what corePHP is selling is "a download" of the software and one year's support for one domain. However, since the product is GPL (as listed in extensions.joomla.org) and it works within and relies upon GPL software (Joomla and Drupal), is there anything preventing anyone from getting Droomla, then offering downloads of it elsewhere for free? (Or doing things like forking the software, etc.?)

As a person who regularly pays commercial Joomla extension developers, I'm much more used to and comfortable with the providers who offer the core GPL'ed product as a free-and-easy download, then sell subscription plans to premium support areas, documentation, bonus add-ons and the latest releases (and pre-releases) of the software. For example, I have ongoing subscriptions for Joomlapolis, JCE, Project Fork, and others. (I also use some purely commercial extensions, too.)

I suppose it is within corePHP's right to "sell" Droomla as they wish. But if the product can indeed be freely distributed/modified/etc. via the GPL, I find their presentation to be a bit disingenuous. Perhaps they can update their site with more product information, or make it clearer exactly what you're buying (e.g. what does one year per domain support include?).


-- For Point No. 2: Can Droomla enable multi-site (multi-domain) functionality on Joomla installations? I couldn't find this in their feature list or documentation. If so, friggin awesome!


-- For Point No. 3: Hey, no need for personal attacks, Mike. I should have clarified that I was referring to the practical business usage of these products, rather than a list of technical features. Most folks who use Joomla don't have a Drupal budget (or access to the technical chops needed to use both). Rather, they're more likely to be a small- to medium-sized organization with more modest needs and the willingness to sacrifice or compromise Web site features in order to save money.

Joomla plus third-party extensions *will* get most of these folks 98% or 100% of the way there ... By the time you're talking about Drupal development or integration, you're moving into a higher budget area (easily over $5K or $10K) and a different customer market. And I would guess that the folks who have this amount of money to spend would have already been considering Drupal.

Justin,
**In regards to your first comment, if you knew anything about the guys at CorePHP.com or their products you would know that they do not encrypt or obfuscate any part of their code on any of their products to enforce domain restrictions.
They are 100% following GPL licensing guidelines. Just because a company like CorePHP is selling an extension that "marries" the two GPL licensed systems does not mean that they are violating the GPL license by selling access to the downloads and support. GPL freedom has absolutely nothing to do with price.

**Your second comment is confusing because this component installs the Drupal framework inside of Joomla. So how could it possibly not have a feature that Drupal offers? Makes no sense.

**Your third comment about Drupal only having 2% difference in functionality is WAY off base. Maybe if you knew more about what you were talking about you would know how far off your comments really are from reality. I guess only Super-Geeks know how to use more than one CMS. What does that make people that only know one CMS framework?

A couple thoughts:

-- First, I find it disappointing that corePHP is "selling" this on their site, in apparent violation of both Joomla's and Drupal's licensing terms. Both are open-source software, and neither should be able to be "sold." (Note that this is much different than the entirely proper selling of subscriptions to specific support documentation, implementation services, priority support forums and other support services.) Once you click to "buy" Droomla, it becomes apparent that what they're really selling is $99 for a year of support for the product at a specific domain. But this is being marketed otherwise.

I guess all it will take is one person who will buy the product, then post it for free download to everyone ... unless corePHP uses IonCube or other chicanery to lock a Droomla installation to one domain. I find the models followed by Joomlopolis et al to be much fairer and truer to the GPL. If Droomla is locked down, I don't see how it could be legal in terms of the GPL.

-- Second, I don't see anything about multi-site support in the feature list, which is a key feature of Drupal which would be most appealing, integration-wise. I'm guessing this capability is not included in Droomla.

-- Third, I wonder about practical adoption of Droomla, since it will require implementation knowledge of both Joomla and Drupal ... not a task to take on lightly. Perhaps this will only be useful for the super-geeks who understand both systems thoroughly and need that extra 2% of features that Joomla (plus third-party extensions) can't deliver out of the box.